Biography
A United Methodist pastor for over fifteen years, B. Herbert Martin has served as President of the NAACP in Chicago, Chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority, Executive Director for the Chicago Commission on Human Relations and as pastor of the Progressive Community Church — The People's Church — in Chicago. The great-grandson of ex-slaves, the grandson and son of Mississippi sharecroppers, Herb Martin has had a life-long commitment to the civil rights struggle that began with his involvement with Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Southern Christian Conference. [Biographical information is correct as of the broadcast date noted above.]

Joseph W. Elder is a Professor of Sociology at the University of Wisconsin. A Quaker, he has dedicated his life to resolving conflicts peacefully. In 1966, he and two companions were envoys between the governments of India and Pakistan. They acted as mediators to bring about peace after the war that had raged over Kashmir. He was also involved in negotiations to end the war between North and South Vietnam. [Biographical information is correct as of the broadcast date noted above.]

"The Unity for Which Christ Prayer" 
This magnificent prayer of intercession, prayed by Jesus to God the Father, was not only for the eleven disciples, but for the church of the future, for the whole company of faithful believers who would respond to the Apostolic preaching beginning at the Day of Pentecost. Jesus prays for the unity of the community. He prays for true koinonia, that this community of believers may share the fellowship which he has with the Father.

How are we expected to achieve such unity? First, as His creation, we should live near, with and in God. And second, our relationship with God should bring about a nearness to one another.

In mathematics we learn that two points on the circumference of a circle can be far apart. But let them both come closer to the center, and they cannot avoid approaching each other. It is because we live too far from the center, God our Father, that we are alienated from each other and squabble over our differences — sect from sect, church from church, synagogue from mosque — an ever-widening circle expanding away from our center, God. There are petty squabbles over dogma and doctrine, even taking arms against each other to the point of murder. The Cain Syndrome is still at work amongst us. But the moment we worship God, we find ourselves drawing to one another.

The unity for which Christ prayed was a prayer for the universal human community. In verse 20 Jesus prays: "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word." Jesus also speaks of this oneness in St. John 10:16. "And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd."

This unity is a universal unity, a oneness in God. This universal oneness is the eventual destiny of all creation. Unity, yes! Uniformity, no — a magnificent diversity within unity, a kaleidoscopic prism of God's creative processes working in all of humankind, bringing us into full fruition according to His purpose and divine plan. A unity that beckons us beyond our dogmas, beyond our liturgies, our biases, our prejudices and our ecclesiastical littleness into the vastness of our potential to become the beloved community of God. Unity that calls us from the disaster of fragmented denominationalism to the hope of true ecumenism.

Without this unity, we suffer the pain of spiritual poverty that has bankrupted human society of peace, justice, freedom, equity and righteousness. Human civilization without these values produces intelligence — yes — but without understanding; men and women who seek success — but without character; wealth without charity; justice without mercy; order without peace; responsibility without power.

Sad to say, this is the growing and grim reality of life in our fragmented nation and world. When we grow away from our center, God, we grow away from each other. How vast is the social chasm between people and people. How deep the social rift between black and white. A suitable historical vignette is the monumental civil rights struggle in this country that has ranged all the way from Dredd Scott in 1857 to the Fair Housing Amendment of 1968. Yet, African-American people find themselves even more destitute, powerless and poverty stricken today than they were during the Post Reconstruction Era in America.

There is too great a disparity between the house of "have" and the house of "need." One cannot help but wonder when all the pain, all the despair, the hopelessness that leaps out at us from the newspaper, the television and radio will come to an end and the day of peace and justice with dignity shall reign!

The unity for which Christ prayed is not an empty unity, but one of substance; one that demands social justice, both within the community of faith and in secular society. It is a unity that stands tall against injustice and the continued movement of racism, anti-Semitism and bigotry. Those of us who seek the unity for which Christ prayed must work as the salt of the earth and the light that cannot be hidden, quietly but effectively working the will and purpose of God and getting revolutionary and radical results to restore, recover and reconcile the broken relationship between God and, His creation.

We are to function as salt during times of injustice, oppression and the practice of inequality. We must be agents of change in an unjust society, America notwithstanding. Our own country has a shameful record in human rights and has not done much in the recent decade to improve how it deals with the poor and, what Dr. Howard Thurman has termed, "the disinherited masses" and, what Dr. Wilburn Julius Wilson calls, "the underclass in our nation."

Our President, Mr. Bush, has spoken rhetorically of a "kinder and gentler nation." Our country can no longer speak the rhetoric of justice, it must now love and practice justice or die at the hands of its own hypocrisy.

Martin Luther King, Jr., stated: "Our hope for creative living in this world house that we have inherited, lies in our ability to re-establish the moral ends of our lives in personal character and social justice. Without this spiritual and moral reawakening, we shall destroy ourselves in the misuse of our instruments."

The current trend toward turning the clock back on the progress of the poor and disinherited of our nation has within it the seeds of self-destruction, for the clock is being turned back at a very vulnerable period in our social order. Infant mortality is over 50% in some neighborhoods. Substance abuse is killing generations of our children. Over 70,000 people in Chicago are without homes and shelter. There is joblessness and unemployment, inadequate health care, a breakdown in the family structure. Our public education is in crisis, and there is a high disregard for moral values.

As a result of these social problems, the human condition in our country has worsened and masses of people from every walk of life have become psychologically distraught. With a negative social climate, combined with psychological ills and the feeling of betrayal on the part of the government, we have a dangerous mixture of human problems that is potentially explosive and disastrous.

Thus, America cannot afford a backward step into a time reminiscent of apple pie, motherhood and the flag. But, we must move forward with the rest of the world into a future where justice — freedom with dignity — is the reality for every man, woman, boy and girl. Then everyone can have a slice of apple pie; motherhood will be a blessing; allegiance to the flag will be without equivocation. Those of us who seek the unity for which Christ prayed are challenged to commit ourselves towards these ends. Our struggle for unity and our hope to become a community of communion mist make the difference between the forces of darkness, death, despair, hatred and the gifts of light, life, joy, peace and hope.

As we watch the continent of Europe undergo its metamorphosis of social change, the continent of Africa shake off the vestiges of colonialism, the continent of Asia burst out onto the global stage, the continent of South America stand forth in world leadership — those of us who seek the unity for which Christ prayed should not stand on the side of the road and watch the global community pass by. Let us be the leaven, the salt, the light that makes the difference in the great tomorrow where all of God's sons and daughters will be free of that spiritual poverty that separated us from one another and where we can bask in the love of God's sunlight and become all that God has created us to become!

Until then let us build bridges rather than walls. Let us build coalitions rather than armies. Let us make bread rather than bombs. Let us give mutual aid and mutual dependence rather than mutual destruction. We are God's people and as we work together, let us keep before us the vision of John the Revelator, "Behold I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth have passed away." Until that time comes, until the time of the fulfillment of this eschatological hope, it becomes our existential desire, discipline and delight to carry out the mandate of His gospel according to St. Luke 4:18: ".... to preach good news to the poor, to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, recover sight to the blind, set at liberty to those who are oppressed and to preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

Let us reach out across the magnificent diversity of our creative process in God, join hands sister-to-sister, brother-to-brother, and let us build this true, beloved community, the koinonia. God bless your hearts and God give you peace. Amen.

Interview with B. Herbert Martin and Joseph W. Elder
Interviewed by David Hardin

David Hardin: It is interesting to me that tonight we are looking at the issues of non-violent solutions to human problems, to human rights, civil rights, to the resolution of wars. Let's start with your commitment to human rights, Herb. As Executive Director of the Chicago Commission on Human Relations, what were you hoping to accomplish with that job?

B. Herbert Martin: Unity, togetherness. Chicago is a very diverse city. That diversity has within it a tremendous opportunity. Unfortunately, rather than seizing the opportunity, we allow such a magnificent diversity to become a curse too many times when it should be a blessing. It was my hope, and remains my hope, that we can fashion the kind of human community that Jesse Jackson calls "the rainbow coalition" of neighborhoods, of individuals, of churches, of religions, of faith — everybody working together for the good of Chicago. That is my basic commitment. I have maintained that. One way I try to live it out now, of course, is from the grassroots level, from the local church level, encouraging the local church to see that it can be an effective witness to the gospel of Christ and then move beyond that to embrace other communities and other communions. We are much further along the way and I believe that the church has a very key role. The community of faith has a very key role to play in human rights.

Hardin: Don't you think sometimes our political leaders actually fan the fire of the problem rather than solving it?

Martin: To their own benefit — unfortunately, yes. Racial politics has been a very ugly part of our past in Chicago. I have seen an improvement in this area in the recent year and recent months. I didn't see as much racial overtones to the political process. However, there is this problem of bias, ignorance and prejudice that needs to be dealt with. The only way that you deal with it is by getting people to encounter each other, to admit to it and talk about it.

Hardin: Let's go on to a little broader scope. I read about your experience in the Vietnam War, Joe. Tell us a little bit about what you were trying to do there.

Joseph Elder: My initial assignment was to go into North Vietnam, to go into Hanoi, and talk with the leaders in Hanoi about the kind of assistance Quakers, Mennonites, other peace groups might provide for the war victims in North Vietnam. Part of the tradition of the Quakers is that when a war does break out we sense it is the civilians, the children, the old, the women, who suffer most. We have tried to provide relief to people on all sides of a conflict, both trying to help them and to stress the fact that we are all in a sense suffering together. At that time the Quakers were providing relief in South Vietnam, but we bad not been able to set up the structure for the North.

In the summer of 1969, the North Vietnamese invited the Quakers to send somebody in to talk about what could be done. I happened to have volunteered to work for the Quakers that summer. So, I was the link. I spent one week in June 1969 talking with the North Vietnamese about what this small gift — it was $30,000 as I recall — could do to help the civilian war victims in the North. At the end of the week they gave me a list of medical supplies that they couldn't buy with the currency they were getting from the Soviet Union or the Chinese. These were supplies they needed from Hong Kong, Japan and the United States. I went back again in October to bring the supplies. Each time, along with the fact that I was involved essentially in this humanitarian mission, there were messages that each side wanted to have carried back and forth. Once you are at war with people you simply can't talk with them. To have a neutral person going back and forth meant that there were people asking us to do things on each side winch I hope helped bring some kind of end to the war.

Hardin: Did you get a lot of hostility out of the South and this country because you were dealing with the North Vietnamese?

Elder: It was mixed. There were certainly people in the United States who felt that it was disloyal go into North Vietnam because they were our enemies. I was struck more with how people were sympathetic, who felt that the war in a sense was a bit of madness and that actually we did not have any grudge against the people of North Vietnam. In fact, on my second trip I was approached by the wives of two American service men missing in action, one of whom thought her husband was still a prisoner in the North. They gave me a $100 donation to be given to the children who were victims of the war. I thought this was one of those human touches. While their husbands were involved in a very destructive activity, they wanted to contribute somehow to alleviating the suffering that we were all involved in generating.

Hardin: Herb, when you were dealing Dr. King's SCLC effort in the South, confronting the establishment, did you recognize there was a need for some confidential negotiations, some trust and secrecy. Did that ever come up?

Martin: All the time. You certainly didn't want all of your strategies to get out. I would like to pick up on what Joe is doing. What I recognize immediately is that what we do is at a local level — it is local insofar as it is global in its perspective. What Joe does is global insofar as it is local. Should the same Asian brothers and sisters for whom he works so diligently as being mediator in times of war become Americans, we find ourselves in this diverse culture working with the Asian community trying to help them to assimilate within the American life. Our work is so important. As mediators, I am sure there are times that you have to have strategies that you just don't want everybody to know about. You are not trying to hide anything behind the cloak, but certainly you have to have strategies that cannot be revealed and should be treated with confidentiality and respect.

Hardin: How does it affect your approach and deep commitment to civil rights to take the Lord so seriously. How does the fact that Jesus is in your life change the way you might operate?

Martin: First of all, I believe that one cannot really be a follower of Jesus unless he is very committed, because the Way is eventually the Way of the Cross. That is always there, that ultimate sacrifice. First of all, you must have a very basic commitment and a basic love for the work. Otherwise, you will despair and give up.

Hardin: You have to see Christ in the faces of your opponents?

Martin: You have to see Christ in the opponent. As Abraham Lincoln said, the best way to destroy your enemy is to make him your friend. In every opponent's face, in every opponent's eye, you see a potential friend, a potential ally, a potential person to help you build bridges between your differences and work together.

Hardin: Let's go back to your negotiations in so many Asian countries. As a westerner and a Yankee, it had to be quite interesting to build their trust, especially the North Vietnamese. After all, you came out of a country they were fighting. How did you build that trust?

Elder: It is clearly something that is beyond the capacity of any one of us. I have been struck in each instance by how, once one identifies one's self as a passivist — one who is committed to non-violence there is a kind of trust that is generated which seems to be vital.

I think the fact I come from a peace church that has been doing this for three hundred years helps. In virtually every one of these negotiations people quickly recognized the commitment that we have to nonviolence. They are looking for somebody with whom they can communicate and somebody through whom they can send messages. In several instances where we have been carrying messages between sides, another nation will offer to mediate. We have asked at that point if they would like us to drop out. They never have said yes. They have said that nations always have their own agendas. Their sense is that we have no agenda other than keeping some kind of channel going. That seems to be a basic starting point.

I think it goes back to the point that there is a commonality we have which, once recognized, allows us all to communicate with each other.

Hardin: Looking at the whole civil rights issue today and all of the points you made in your fine talk about what is still missing, what do you think is the most important single thing we ought to be doing in terms of improving our human relations or our civil rights?

Martin: I believe that there has got to be a basic commitment from all the sectors of the society — government, business, the academic centers and the religious community. There has got to be a basic commitment from these major institutions, as well as the grassroots neighborhoods working together in concert on problems that divide, looking at those things that are vested interests regardless of social class or color.

Hardin: One of the issues is that we don't seem to get to know each other very well.

Martin: That is our biggest problem. We hide behind the facades; we hide behind our ignorance, our biases, our fears of each other. We have got to break through those. There are too many good folk back there.

Hardin: Thanks a lot. It has been wonderful to have you with us. I have heard you. I hope some other people have.